Unlocking the Secrets of Effective Marketing and SEO for Clinics with Michael Schumacher

Katie Bell: 1:12

Hello, and welcome to this week’s episode of the treat your business podcast. I am super excited to be joined by Michael Schumacher for about the seventh time, Michael now, we just keep rolling you back in. Thank you for being here.

Michael Schumacher: 1:29

So probably about the 70 of time.

Katie Bell: 1:33

You are welcome. Right, Michael, we are we are diving straight in there. We’re not doing any of this airy fairy talk to begin with. I have got a big question for you that lots of my clinic owners and business owners asked me what when we have a website, and we have to invest in SEO? So search engine optimization, what a what does it actually do? And when we are paying for SEO on our website, what like what are you actually doing behind the scenes for

Michael Schumacher: 2:02

that first question, really simple. SEO is a way of getting to the top of search engine when someone does a search. They’re doing a search for the most common keywords physio near me physio in Sheffield, Sheffield physio best physio in Sheffield, best chiropractor for back pain, all of those sorts of things, then you are appearing hiring Google if you’ve got really great SEO so and that applies to both your organic links. We call them SERPs which have the list the kind of text links, but that also applies to your Google My Business. Because when you do a search now, you’ll find that you’re in a situation where you know you you do a search for a plumber and you’re gonna see your Google My Business ranking come up. So it’s both of those essentially.

Katie Bell: 2:49

And that is so that is different to ads where so if people are searching for a search term that appears on your website,

Michael Schumacher: 2:58

it’s the same thing. So if you do a search and ignore do it now, physio in Sheffield, you’re going to see an ad if you are in Sheffield. If you’re not in Sheffield, you won’t see the ad hopefully because ads you’d only show it to people or location. But if you just search for a physio in your location right now, you’re going to see two things or three things actually, you’re going to see an advert which is Google AdWords has sponsored. It says we’re the best physio in the world ever. You’re gonna see a Google My Business with three we call it the map pack with three businesses. And then underneath all of that you’re gonna see some links that are, you know, Bristol, physio or Southampton, physio or whatever. So our job is as people who do SEO, is to make sure you rank as highly as humanly possible for all of the search terms that that get you traffic and get you what we call high intent traffic I people looking to buy. So for example, getting a key term such as emergency physio, or physio, for now is way better than can a physio help with my sore knee. Because if you’re searching for open now or emergency bit like if you did such an emergency dentist, you know that person has high high intent wants to book an appointment. Okay, got it. The second question was, then, what do we do? So I can talk about this for about an hour and get really technical, but there are a few things that we do without getting too technical. One of them is your website has to do certain things, it has to comply with Google web standards, which Google Search Console tells us and it will tell us if there are errors, it has to be fast, it has to be mobile responsive. So if your website is really, really slow, it’s not mobile responsive, Google isn’t gonna show it as high. And then thirdly, it’s got to be technically capable of doing the things that you’ve got. So if you’ve got a website that says, you open up the front page, it says, helping you get better every day. That’s a terrible thing to have. Because if you have that, it means that that’s called a h1. If you have that Google is searching your h1 to say, what do they do now it doesn’t recognise helping you get better every day. So it should say something like high quality physiotherapy clinic in Sheffield. Now you’ve got the keywords in and underneath, they can have something about pain injury, sort of secondary keywords that fit with physio, and then throughout the rest of the site, you have more headings, and then the smaller headings, and those smaller headings have to talk about injuries, pain, you know, that sort of stuff. And then beyond that, images have to be labelled the right way in code for Google to understand what it is because if it sees lots of images, called JPEG 123, or screenshot 567, it doesn’t have any idea what it is. But if it says physio in Sheffield, it goes, Oh, wow. It’s another thing saying this is because in Sheffield, then you have to have you have to do meta descriptions. You have to do titles, you’ve got to think about the URL structure. If your website’s website says Katie about physio.com forward slash women. That’s really really bad. If you do women’s health. Do you want it to say Women’s Health physio Sheffield, because now Google is picking up Women’s Health physio, Sheffield. And then you have to optimise that specific page for all of those Women’s Health things. So the title would be women’s health, then there’s some really technical stuff, which is about local schema, integrated Google Maps. But there’s a lot there that you have to do. And, and to be honest, one page can take two or three hours in a single go to do it really properly. But that’s not it, you can do that, that’s wonderful. I always relate it to a Formula One car, you build your formula one car, you’re really happy with it and get it on track. And then you realise that it’s just not fast enough in certain areas. So what you then have to do is you have to tinker with the Canva, or the, the whatever, all the things maybe change size, whatever it might be, you’ve got to tinker around. And SEO is exactly the same. Because if you if you don’t tinker around, you don’t know how it’s performing. So you have to go and use a tool, we use sem rush for everyone. And you’re going sem rush, you take a what’s working, great, they’re working, let’s leave them but what’s not working. And so you then have to work on the things that aren’t working. And that may mean changing any of the things that I’ve just spoken spoken about. It may be other things, that there’s so much to it that you have to track on a monthly basis, that it’s not the case. So just go like I’ve done my SEO. And quite honestly, we for example right now search physiotherapy marketing agency, we’re going to be number one, we were well, according to the data yesterday, that’s throughout the whole country, as an average, if you if you search it, three, four days ago, we were actually number three, and some other had beaten us. So we had to get on there made some changes. It was semantical keyword changes to make sure we were back in number one. And we actually were able to do that. And so yeah, there’s there’s a lot of technical work that goes on and month by month basis, you need the tech. So I guess one of the questions is, what the bloody hell am I paying all this money for? Well, first of all, the tech, the tech to measure everything and do all the stuff that can be 100 quid a month. SEMrush, for example, is 120 pounds a month, then you need the time of a tech person or web person who can fix Google Search Console errors, then you need a SEO person who knows what they’re doing in terms of all of that, then you need to track and then you pay for them to come back and make all those other fixes. So it’s a sort of thing that you can do on your own you there are snippets you can do on your own. And if you’re in a very small area where you don’t have many competitors, you’re fine. It’s not a problem. Except for let’s say, I can’t think of a small area. Let’s say you’re in a, you know, Oxbridge village somewhere, and it’s a box with a village somewhere, let’s say Vista, it’s not good enough, or would cough or whatever, it’s not good enough, just a feature there. Because there’s only 500 people living there. You need your SEO to expand past that. So if you’re not featuring for Henley on Thames and all the other stuff, then you need to and that’s where it gets difficult because you can’t have physio in Oxford Henley on Thames. You know, blah, blah, blah, and have what you towns there. So then you have to do various coding stuff to make sure that that, that you get seen across lots of multiple geographies. And ultimately, all of this is if you do a search for something, the people at the top are going to get better results than the people at the bottom. It’s obvious when’s the last time you did a Google search? You went to page two? Okay.

Katie Bell: 9:45

Great, great answer, Michael. Thank you. My next question is, how does it work? If say we have like you’re managing Google ads, and you’re doing SEO for lots of clinics in a certain area? Does that mean that they’re all competing against the other and the price of the cost per lead is gonna go up?

Michael Schumacher: 10:05

Yes or no? And yes or no. So this is a really a lead to an article on this, because we get this asked this a lot. And I haven’t done it yet. Let’s talk about Google ads. If there are and we’ll just take three clicks. If we are running Google ads for three clinics, we are able to run those ads, and make sure we don’t fight against other clinics. So in some places like Birmingham, I think we’ve got 26 clinics, it means that we can we can rotate ads, we can make sure that we’re not fighting against all those other clinics, which actually means that the cost goes right down. Also, if you’re wondering, well, I want to be the top clinic and I want to be seen all the time. Well, in Sheffield, it’ll cost you around 40 to 50,000 pounds a month for that. So because though clinics actually spending 40 to 50,000 pounds a month, it means that you’ll have a small impression share anyway, so we rotate and we make sure the cost per lead is good and we we also know what we’re doing so, you know, compared to everyone else, you’re gonna get better results anyway. If you hide, let’s say I’m working with UK tea and someone else hides a Google person in Sheffield. Good luck to them, we will win. We have more data than anyone else who spent millions of pounds getting data. So there’s no way you can beat it. So your cost per lead will go up, you are going to lose on out and patients. But beyond that, fighting us is going to be a no win for anybody. In the short term, in the long term case, you’re going to win, no one’s going to keep spending all that money against us, and, you know, keep losing money. But in the short term, by running ads, it’s an auction, your cost per click is going to go up. So actually, I would say, whether it’s us or anybody else, if you’ve got a company running Google ads for physios, or chiropractors or whatever you are, and they’re running 10 of them in a in an area, use that use that company, because they as long as they have a policy of making sure everything’s rotated. When it comes to SEO, we are not in control of what Google does. So I’m gonna use a silly analogy. If you and I go for a modelling job. And we know we need to have makeup done, we are going to both go to the absolute best makeup artists that we can find. And then we’re going to go into the interview. And then the interviewee is going to make the decision, what you’re not going to do is say, Michaels using the best makeup artist in the world, I’m going to use someone else now. Because you’re going to get lower value, and you’re going to have less of a chance of beating me. So when we do SEO for multiple clinics, what we’re doing, because we do the same for each thing, no one gets preferential treatment, what we’re doing is doing the best makeup, we can, and then Google decides. So there’s no what we could do if we were unethical, we could just not do any work on one clinic. And, you know, do all the work on the other. But that isn’t us. So we give everyone the same amount of work and do the same things. And quite honestly, every clinic is different. So there are some clinics that really want to focus on back pain and sciatica. We got two well, more than that, but two clinics in Edinburgh at the moment, one is very much just back pain and sciatica. The other one is all around and elderly people. And the other one is all around MSK. Well, wonderful. Let’s focus on back pain, sciatica SEO for these guys. And let’s make this a general MSK for the others. So a lot of the time it’s it’s really good. But ultimately, you’ve got to go with the agency that you know, gets the best results. I saw a thread on Reddit the other day actually from a little while back where one of our potential customers was asking the reddit people about this and the reddit people weren’t mad. They were like, Oh my God, you can’t have two people doing the same SEO. But what what then happened was they all said, we’ll do it for you. So it was more of a sales tactic. But honestly, it makes a huge amount of sense. We know what we’re doing, we get results for everyone. And also, it was quite interesting because he didn’t go with them. And is number six at the moment for all the keywords. Top five clients are us. So yeah, it’s quite interesting. So you know, you have options, but generally you want to go for the people that know the most of them. People that have a history and what you search for, for example, the amount of times we get a client on board, and they’re like, we’ve got great SEO, we’ve got one right now got great SEO, Okay, wonderful. Let’s look at it. It’s all sports was massage, because that was easy for them to get well. I don’t care about getting sports massage, SEO, no one wants to do sports massage, it doesn’t earn a lot of money. First thing we did was we went for TMJ. Because we know that this thing does TMJ, there’s a lack of people advertising for it. That’s smashy the number one in like within about 3040 miles within maybe one month. And yeah, you know, when you know what you’re talking about. Same with looking for more complex conditions, whether it’s ACLs or postop. I’d rather go for those. So having the knowledge of that, and understanding the industry and I’m saying clinics, you got to make sure that you’ve got that otherwise, you’re just going to be shown for nonsense. Okay.

Katie Bell: 15:14

So how specific can you be with targeting? If your ideal client isn’t? Anybody with pain?

Michael Schumacher: 15:21

Not you can be very specific. The question isn’t how specific you can be. I could be I could go for people who have one leg, one arm and blue eyes, we can certainly optimise content for that. That’s not the question. Question is how many people with one arm one leg and blue eyes are doing a search for that specific thing. So if it’s golfers or predates or postnatal that simple, there’s enough people searching for it. But when you get very specific, people simply aren’t searching for that what they’re doing is they’re searching for the general term. A good example of that is we have to rank for health care, because how many physios search for physio, marketing or physio, whatever? Well, lots to do, but it’s only about 30% About 70% Search for marketing agency or they search for healthcare marketing agency. You’ll see a lot of healthcare on our site because we want to rank for health care. And we actually get a lot of physio or alcohol, allied health clinics that are coming into us, because we are advertising for healthcare. So generally, you need to know the search volume to be specific. And often you’ll get an SEO company. Well, they’ll say yes, because I get your number one. So pretty much anything on the team can pretty much anything, it’s very unique. But if no one’s searching for it, there’s no point. There’s

Katie Bell: 16:42

a time. Okay, and what about? So we talked about Google ads, driving people to the website to book a book, an appointment? A question about Facebook ads, that direct people to some educational content, which then might lead to them booking.

Michael Schumacher: 17:01

Okay, that’s a it’s a difficult one, it’s probably going to be contentious. But the first thing I think is that person’s asking about funnel, I run an ad, download this book, and then I’m going to email the crap out of that person until they book don’t do that don’t run funnels don’t run. If you book now, I’ll give you 5% off, don’t do any of that stuff. That’s so 1980s. It’s sort of stuff that you sell diet pills with. And I think that’s just not how it should work. Doing content. Yes, but my question is, why are you doing Facebook in the first place? What are you even doing on Facebook running ads? i We do run Facebook ads, and there are some people that that it’s relevant for, but I’d say for 90% of people just stay off it. Because I guarantee you anyone who says it in Facebook ads, if they came to us, we could replace their Facebook ads demand by doing other things and and without having to shut down everybody show our ads 100 times to the same people spend tonnes of time focusing on leads by technology to link all of the funnels up and all the all the rest of it. And I always say, think of it. Imagine a plumber, you are plumbers. So just think always think of yourself as a plumber, because it’s the best analogy. When do you see plumbers running Facebook adverts? It’s very rare. Why? Because if you have a problem, you go and get it fixed. You go onto Google and you do a search or whatever however you do, it doesn’t even matter how you do it. You’re not sat there thinking God my boy is broken. I must attend to that one day. Oh, Christ, that is a guy that fixes boilers, I must use them. What What can work? Admittedly is if you have something specific, like let’s say I was doing vo to max I’m big fan of via to max. If I had the SU Max 100%, I would be doing Facebook ads. And 100% of part of that would be educational stuff. But for your general appointment stuff? No, don’t do it. And I suppose sending people into content is better than than not doing it and just trying to sell cheap appointments. Yeah, the problem is the cost per lead and everything else. So I would want to see some because I know no one’s tracking this. Right. So I want to see all right, I spent 100 pounds on my Facebook ads, I got 20 leads, how many of those people turned into patients? And it’s never 100 pounds and 20 leads? It’s 500 pounds and 1000 pounds? I got 100 leads? How many of those turned into patients? And then how many times they return? And if the answer is three, and you’ve just spent 1000 pounds, what the hell are you doing? So you know, I’ve yet to see it work. I know there’s many, many gurus out there who are like, I wish I can name but I will get sued. But there’s many gurus out there who talk about it and how it’s made the millions of pounds. If anyone’s interested, go and look at my HTG Instagram, there’s a video of me and Mark talking about it. Because we’re an event recently where they said we can make you 30,000 pounds a month with with Facebook ads. And when we actually looked at the clinic, that was the businesses that was doing it. They had four and a half grand in their bank account. Now I’m sorry, but you’re not turning over a million pound and have four grand in the bank account. We all know that. So yeah. So there’s a bit of a diatribe on on Facebook marketing. There’s lots on HMD G about Facebook, we just go to our articles, you’ll see our thoughts on leads and all of that stuff. But if you are going to do it, or I but measure it and make sure you’re making money off of it, because I doubt you are. And

Katie Bell: 20:41

one final question, Michael and so that if we’re thinking about people that have got a problem and know what they need to fix that problem. So they’ve got an epoch, we’ve got knee pain, they’ve got neck pain that Rashad problem, right we’re assuming that all of those people know that they need a physio so they go on to Google and they go physio Sheffield, or how it fits my knee Sheffield or what you know physio near me. What about all of the people because there is a lot of them that are walking around with a problem that they know that they they’ve got they don’t want it anymore, but they don’t know what they need to solve the problem that they’ve got. Is that one educational content is could work because you’re, you can say to them, if you’re struggling with this, this might be a solution, yes

Michael Schumacher: 21:30

or no. So what I would say is that if the problem is serious enough to warrant an appointment, you know where to go, there’s no one that doesn’t know to go to a GP who will say go to a physio, there’s no one that doesn’t know to go somewhere. Also, content in general, is just not very good. There’s 4 billion bits of I think, last I look 4.3 billion pieces of content created a day, and most of it does not convert. However, what we do do with a lot of clinics is we run what are called branded reach ads. And they’re really cheap. What you do is you run an ad with, it’s going to have great photography and videography, so buy that from us. Make Rob happy. But if you’ve got really great creative and really great video, what we tend to do special video, is we push it out there, and we just say, we’re a really friendly clinic, we do all these different things. If you want to get in touch, please do. There’s no, we’ve only got 10 appointments left or get your 100 pounds off now or any of that sort of aggressive stuff. It’s just, it’s the kind of thing of front of mind stuff. It’s like the old days where you put posters up or whatever, it’s just making sure you front of mind. And we do that with a lot of clinics, particularly the bigger clinics who have got an extra 50 quid 100 bandsman, you don’t need to do not spend more than that because you’re gonna piss people off. So it’s just like, hey, we’re a family run clinic we do all these things for some clinics, if they’re multidisciplinary, like you might say. We do tonnes around women’s health, we know it’s a big problem. We know people don’t like to talk, we love to talk, hashtag we to write better humour, bit of weed to Billy humour, bit of you know, nice creative and pushed out if you have a new staff member, Joanne’s, a, particularly if they’re as attractive as I am. Michaels just joined the clinic. Here he is, he’s got appointments available. He’s amazing. He loves football and tennis. And whenever I like, really, it’s just working, but he likes he likes doing all these different things. If you want an appointment, get in touch. So you know, it’s really non aggressive stuff, we’ll do that 50 quid a month in ad spend, it’s normal money. Just make you check, make sure you change the creative around a lot. Because if you don’t, people get very tired of it. You know, if your frequency hits 2.5 to three, stop, replace it never go above a frequency of three if you can avoid it. So yeah, you know, doing that sort of stuff. And you get a lot of people in that way. Actually, sometimes we’ll do you know, anyone who’s over 60 and struggling with X, give us a shout, drop us a message and you give them multiple options, but your whatsapp on there, send us a message, go to this page, see what we do. So that can work as well. But it’s not necessarily condition. You often go for what we call verticals. So corporate world verticals are healthcare, automotive, etc. In this industry, it’s kind of older people, weekend warriors, golfers, tennis players, pre and postnatal. So you can kind of push things out that way. And by the way, anyone who thinks that targeting works on Facebook anymore, it doesn’t. So don’t think about advertising to golfers, and people who like golf, because if you don’t look at your own interests, honestly, I’ve got the weirdest stuff on my in my thing. interests aren’t what they used to be. So actually, you put it out there. Now final thing. This is a bit more technical, but for those of you that know how to do it, if you put out a video instead of an image, and you make sure the video is is no more than 30 seconds max, ideally 15 seconds, what you can do is you can build an audience from that I won’t explain this to people who don’t understand it because it’s too much but for you that do understand it, you run a video and you run it for however long. And then you go to your your targeting tool and you create an audience from the people who watch that video for more than 5060 70% of the time, which means you’re getting people who will most likely remember your brand and those people who have watched the video and then you can target retarget them and that can be incredibly successful. What you don’t want people who just flick through saw two seconds said I’m not interested. Do sorry. Another tip Do not put physiotherapy and you’re targeting the only people that are interested in physiotherapy of physiotherapists. Oh you’re going to do is annoying me? Because I’m on that list and you’re going to advertise me all sorts of stuff. But yeah, retargeting through video can still be incurred. They’re really incredibly useful. A little bit like retargeting off your website. So that’s sorry, there’s another thing you might do. Someone who needs your back pain page doesn’t book. Next up, they’re on social media, they see a little ad. And it says, Hey, we’re amazing at fixing back pain. If you’re looking for anything, you know, coming out of chat, and that’s quite nice reinforcement. And we’ll do that. But again, it’s you don’t need to spend tonnes of money. It’s very, very low cost, do not pay the people out there. Some people out there are charging 789 100 pounds to run Facebook campaigns. Some of these things, honestly, we could set up if we have the time. For example, I can set you up a video retargeting ad, I’m assuming I had the video. It’s 1111. Now I can have it set up by 1120. That’s how quick it is. So don’t pay people 1000s of pounds on this stuff. And don’t spend 1000 pounds because all you can do is annoy people.

Katie Bell: 27:08

Yeah, and that’s what people are being are. They’re hearing these big, kind of winking at you this many clients, and we can do all of this. And then they’re being sold the dream. And they need to do their due diligence, they need to look at numbers, they need to be able to track stuff they need to be able to analyse stuff, you need to be asking the questions like you would make in terms of what’s their data on other clinics that they work with, they work with? How effective are they for the people before they say yesterday,

Michael Schumacher: 27:37

I would do? I will do a few things. First of all go in, it’s really interesting, go and look at the chat that’s on our Instagram at the moment. It’s second posts, and probably a third of those four, you’ll see my ugly mug on there. On the picture. It’s a really interesting chat about all of this. So 10 minutes, things I would do before looking at those companies. Number one, go and look at the company’s house. If we see so many of these, it’s a kid in its bedroom, who actually makes no money claims to have a million Kleenex claims to make 10 million pounds or whatever it is that they claim. And when you look at a company’s house, they literally have no revenue going through. And I do this for lots of things. By the way. It’s a trick that I don’t know if he did it, but it’s always a trick I do to see whether someone’s actually doing well, because the counselling companies have told you everything. The second thing, and I think this is really important that everyone forgets everyone forgets. Company says I can get your 100 Free appointments. Wonderful. It’s going to cost you 1000 pounds. All right, that’s actually not terrible. 1000 pounds, including adspend to get 100 points. It’s not terrible. Of those 50 book through. Still not terrible, right? 50 actually turned into three appointments. It’s not bad. And then 25 come through and and pay for another appointment. Still not terrible. It’s okay. What no one’s figured into this is the 50 close to 50 hours of time that it’s taken you to call those people chase them up. And quite honestly, it’s more than that. I had to think on the other days, 80 hours in a week that he was having to chase people up, call them email them, WhatsApp them to get them in. So it’s the 52 plus hours there. And then it’s the 20 hours of free appointments. You’ve just spent okay, it’s only cost you two grand to get 25 appointments, but it just cost you 75 Bloody hours to get those 25 appointments. What are you doing like that? That’s that’s absolutely mad and something I’m sure we’ll talk about one point I can’t remember if we’ve already talked about it on someone but valuing your time. Yeah, you talk about that all the time. So value your bloody time. Don’t Don’t be the one that’s doing all the work. Yeah. It’s like an accountant me saying, Okay, I’ll give you two grants. Do you mind Council? Then he says, Can you stick everything in Excel? And do the rest yourself? No bloody can’t you do it? And I think there’s a lot of this going round. And it also absolves them of responsibility because they say, but your 100 links Good luck. And if you don’t close it, now I sell you training on how to close or like one very prominent person who actually exists. But one person says, Well, we haven’t done for you package of four grand. And now you’re in a four grand it’s giving you 50 patients but you’re not doing the sums of what is the actual revenue that that has generated me. And I have endless stories of we had one client I don’t think he’ll he mentioned me his name. Josh friendship pro Cairo. He’s lovely guy. He came on board with us. He was just, it was a brand new clinic and he was so scared and you can you know, he was genuinely worried it was stressing him out. He wasn’t getting all the patients through. And it came to us after probably two or three months, maybe a bit longer. So Michael, I’m gonna go and try one of these free things. I said may do it. There is no hard feelings. You’re a great guy. I’ll still go for a beer with you. Go and do it. And he did. So but one thing don’t be scared of coming back. It’s come back if you want to offI goes three months, maybe four months. He’s spending 1700 pounds a month and he is full. He is really really busy. His everything’s going well. And then he comes back and he says, Well, I’m busy. But I’m actually making a couple of 100 pounds extra, doing all of this stuff. And it is a couple 100 pounds, and I feel better because I’m really busy. And maybe that’s what he needed to be honest. But I feel better because I’m busy. But I’m not actually making any money. So it’s it’s switched off, come back to us, you’re gonna have to wait. And actually there was some rescuing. Because once you’ve known as the free physio or the free kinds of chiropractor, but once you’re known as the free guy, it’s very difficult to pull that back. So it’s been a rescuing is your lesson lessons are revealed the other day, we had a chat a few weeks ago, and he was just like, honestly, I’m living the dream. I wouldn’t say what he’s making. But he’s a one man band. Honestly, it’s the sort of money most people dream of. And he’s just like, I’m so happy I went through with this, I’m so happy I did it properly, and not the other route. And I will say, lastly, on all of this is the I always look up to people who have done it, I always respect people who you know, I have way more respect for someone who has built a marketing agency and sold it for 50 million than I do someone who, you know, is a guru and has written a book about it. And so for clinicians, you should be looking at companies that you really admire, whether it’s yours, Katie or someone else’s, I’d look up at those. And we work with a lot of 1 million pound plus clinics, which everyone seems to want to get to, without actually thinking about, profitability gets a 1 million. That’s another story. Everyone’s like, I want to be a 1 million clinic, well, that’s great. Well, if you only make 10 grand doing it, not so good, I’d rather be 100 grand, and it can make 10 grand, it’s less effort value. I think always look at clinics you aspire to. And the ones that are really great are the ones that it was blood, sweat, and tears, there were no free pointment campaigns and funnels and emails, none of them do that stuff. They are all, they’ve all done it in the right way in a really solid foundational way. And it’s no different, you can lose weight in a number of ways. You can starve yourself and drink cucumber juice, and nothing else. And whatever will the Kellogg’s cornflakes when they’re all crap, do it properly. And it will give you much longer lasting results. Because I’ll tell you what, there are only so many people that you can saturate with any kind of social media ad and put it in that face. 1000 times I’m sure there’s not one person listening to this, who hasn’t sat there and gone for fucksakes. If that I see that advert one more time for that pair of trainers or that candle or that whatever it might be, I’m going to kill somebody. And you know, if that happens, and that will happen over time, it only takes 1000 pounds spent to hit people 1020 times, when you do that, they’re going to start pressing a little button that says not interested or report or whatever it might be the moment that happens. And you see the below average happening on your ads account. If you only see average or below average, your ad account is being deprioritize by Facebook. It’s more technical than that, but just roughly, and you are now not seen as credible. And your ads are going to do worse and worse and worse over time. So there’s my diatribe on that. Can I just can I just say one more thing about SEO, there’s something I should have said it’s probably one of the most important things. Everybody will get emails every day for Link buying for SEO for all of this kind of Google stuff. Get in the top three in the map pack. The reason for that is that SEO is very much like going on a diet. You don’t get results on day one. It takes a little bit of time to get those. So yeah. So that’s a bit of a diatribe on on better SEO.

Katie Bell: 35:00

Michael, thank you so much for again, giving us so much of your time and all of your knowledge. I think it’s probably really helped our listeners understand a little bit more about SEO, what’s going on in the background, what they’re spending the money on what questions they need to be asking so that they do understand it and just dive in into the world of Facebook and why we probably really just not be using it. Thank you again for your time. Thanks, everybody for listening to this week’s episode. See you again next week. Have a fabulous one.