How to make more profit and grow your impact

Treat Your Business EP79

[00:00:00] Katie Bell: Welcome back to the Treat Your Business podcast, where we are tying up the month nicely with a guest speaker. And you are really going to enjoy this guys, because you have heard me speak over the last few weeks all about profit first. We have been digging into how we can make profit into every transaction in our business, how you don’t have to wait, Till the end of the month or the end of the year to know what profit you have made in your business and how much you could pay yourself.

[00:00:30] Katie Bell: How you can find out a way of of creating consistent income that you can take out of your business month in, month out. And how you can run a streamlined, operationally efficient business that ultimately means you are profitable. So you can create a bigger impact. You are sustainable. You’ve got a business that’s got longevity attached to it.

[00:00:53] Katie Bell: And you can go out there and do what you do best and not have to worry about all this stuff. You’ve heard me go on about it this last month. And if you haven’t listened back to those podcasts, Go there first because this is now going to make more sense. But I am really excited to introduce to you Annette Ferguson from Annette Co.

[00:01:13] Katie Bell: Annette’s company is an accountancy firm that teaches, runs off the Profit First model. I think she’s a very rare person in the most wonderful way because at the minute you talk to Annette, You feel like all the complexity around accounts is taken care of. It’s simple. She gets, she talks to you in a way that you can understand it and breaks it down into really simple strategies.

[00:01:39] Katie Bell: And she is on the podcast today to share three of her very top tips for you. So listen up.

[00:01:46] Katie Bell: Welcome to the Treat Your Business podcast with Katie Bell. I am Katie, and this is the place to learn the strategies, tactics, tools, and mindset needed. To build your clinic or studio into a business that gives you the time, money, energy and fulfillment you want and deserve. My team and I work every day with overwhelmed and exhausted clinic owners like you to shift them from a business that is a huge time and energy drain and is not giving them the income they want to confident clinic owners that are making money, saving money and getting time back in their lives.

[00:02:17] Katie Bell: So if this sounds like something you want, let’s dive in. This podcast is sponsored by HMDG, the leading digital marketing agency for the Clinicare is in the U. K.

[00:02:27] Katie Bell: Hi Annette, welcome to the podcast. Thank you so much for having me. I’m excited for this conversation. Me too. I’m very excited because all listeners have heard nothing but the profit first model for the last few weeks on the podcast. It’s nice to finally have an expert who they will actually listen to.

[00:02:46] Annette Ferguson: Oh, I’m sure they have listened to the last few weeks as well.

[00:02:50] Katie Bell: It’s great to have a different voice though. It’s great to have a different voice. Annette, please introduce yourself to our listeners so they know who you are.

[00:02:57] Annette Ferguson: Absolutely. Thank you, Katie. As I say, it’s lovely to be here. And hello to everyone who’s listening.

[00:03:01] Annette Ferguson: My name is Annette Ferguson. I am CEO of Annette Co, UK based accounting firm. We are chartered accountants, certified profit first professionals and financial strategists. Wow.

[00:03:14] Katie Bell: So what I love about your business, Annette, is that you are one of the very few in my world anyway, that that does everything based off the profit first model when it comes to accounting.

[00:03:24] Katie Bell: Absolutely. Which is very refreshing and something that we run in our business and we teach our clients to run as well. Can you give our listeners a little bit of a brief understanding of the Profit First model and what makes you different to perhaps a traditional accountant?

[00:03:40] Katie Bell: Absolutely.

[00:03:41] Annette Ferguson: So Profit First as I’m sure you may have heard over the last few weeks, if you’ve listened to the last few weeks worth of podcasts, if you haven’t, you should go back and listen to those. But anyway, Profit First is fundamentally, it is a cash management system. And. What typically happens with most businesses is most businesses have a transaction management system.

[00:04:03] Annette Ferguson: So something like Xero or QuickBooks, or even an Excel spreadsheet where you’re doing your bookkeeping, that would be basically a transactional management system. It records the transactions. It does it in a way that is necessary and compliant for HMRC, company’s house, all those kinds of things. But the fundamental piece that very many businesses don’t have in place at all is a cash management system.

[00:04:30] Annette Ferguson: And that is often why people can feel like they don’t really understand. How the cash is moving in their business, or that it seems to come in and disappear out as quickly as it’s come in, or they get to VAT payment time or payroll payment time and go, oh, hang on, maybe I didn’t have the money to spend on that thing that I purchased that was really nice and shiny last week, and now I don’t have the money to pay my tax bill.

[00:05:03] Annette Ferguson: That’s how you end up in a situation, typically going, I need a cash management system, I don’t seem to have one. And you may not call it that, and you may not know that’s what it is. But in that situation, that is typically what is missing in the business is a cash management system. And so 99. 9 percent of accountants focus on this transaction management system.

[00:05:25] Annette Ferguson: And we look at both because. To have a financially healthy business, you need both in place at the same time. Yes, you need to be compliant with HMRC and Companies House. Of course, that needs to happen, but also cash needs to be managed in a business. And so marrying these two together for us, we believe Puts a business in a much stronger financial position overall.

[00:05:52] Annette Ferguson: And it helps you really get more clarity on the, where the money is going in your business. Because let’s face it, most people, unless they are geeks like me, are not purring over a set of annual accounts or delving into their monthly profit and loss imbalance sheets.

[00:06:11] Katie Bell: Yeah. And that I think is one of the things that as clinic owners we are really not that interested in the numbers, although we absolutely have to be, that is not our zone of genius.

[00:06:20] Katie Bell: So we tend to bury our head in the sand and we don’t really, we don’t really want to look at it, but it’s not till certainly when we start working with clients, we talk about baking profit into every transaction and that profit needs to be a habit, not just an event.

[00:06:35] Annette Ferguson: 100%. Yeah.

[00:06:36] Katie Bell: And I think that’s where the Profit First model is so helpful is that I always think when you get a P& L, it’s too late.

[00:06:44] Annette Ferguson: Oh it’s way too late. And in many cases, it’s nine months too late. If it’s your annual account, it’s just before filing deadline. You’ve forgotten what happened at the end of that year, let alone during that year. So yeah, absolutely. And, monthly profit and loss accounts and balance sheets, they have their place, but in all honesty, lots of people don’t have the time to look at them, the energy to look at them, or really the understanding of what they’re looking at when they look at them either.

[00:07:11] Annette Ferguson: So that for most business owners, it doesn’t actually help them either.

[00:07:15] Katie Bell: And so for a lot of our clinic owners some listening to this will not be looking at any data on a month by month, week by week basis. So we’ll be absolutely waiting until that year end and looking and then going, Ooh, okay.

[00:07:28] Katie Bell: On paper, because the famous paper says I’ve made. 25, 000 this year. But like you said, Annette, they don’t actually see that. They don’t feel like it’s there for them to be able to spend at the end of the year to celebrate their success. It’s just, we’re just rolling all the time. And that’s where what you do differs.

[00:07:48] Annette Ferguson: Yeah, absolutely. So when before we implemented Profit First for all our clients, we would have those conversations with people where we’d say, well done, you made 25, 000 pounds last year in your business, and people would turn around to us and say, Oh, okay, great. Where is it? Where’s the money?

[00:08:06] Annette Ferguson: And you go, Oh actually the money doesn’t, it’s not money. It’s just this kind of number that we’ve got on this piece of paper. And that, that’s mind blowing for people. How is that possible that I’ve made all this money yet have no money? Like how is a piece of paper that I’m having to declare to Companies House and HMRC that I made all this profit yet it’s not in my back pocket?

[00:08:30] Annette Ferguson: And that is. That’s a real disconnect in terms of in terms of what the statutory accounts show and the reality of people’s lives, which is why when you’re looking at profit first and you are looking at moving money, And setting it aside and knowing what the purpose of that money is, including a profit, bank account, pot, space, whatever that terminology is with your own bank, when you can see that building up, then that is the profit money.

[00:09:05] Annette Ferguson: And it is actually cash. And that becomes significantly easier to understand as a business owner and much more tangible. And this is Plays into what I was speaking about before in terms of the transaction management, the P& L on your piece of paper versus the cash management, which is the numbers you are seeing in your business bank account, in your separate savings accounts, in your POTS spaces, with whichever bank terminology you have.

[00:09:33] Katie Bell: And I think this is one of the biggest differences I’ve seen using this model is that I link it to the principle of, if you’re trying to diet and lose weight, then you have it, you get a smaller plate out the cupboard. Yes, exactly. Because then you can’t pile your plate up with quite as much stuff.

[00:09:48] Katie Bell: And it’s the same principle in my head that, okay, if I have smaller pots, for example. I’m having to run a more streamlined business. I’m having to run a more operationally efficient business. Rather than it being all in one big pot and everything comes in and everything goes out and you’ve got no idea where your tax money is or your tax provision.

[00:10:07] Katie Bell: And as you say, the profit. Importantly, what many of our clinic owners struggle with is they feel like they’re the last to be paid or they get paid just with whatever is left over.

[00:10:19] Annette Ferguson: With the financial scraps of the business.

[00:10:22] Katie Bell: Exactly. What a great term, literally the scraps. And that can, when you’re growing a business and you’re putting everything in and you’re so invested and you’re taking all the risk and you’ve got the nights and you’re waking up at half four in the morning to get stuff done.

[00:10:37] Katie Bell: It can feel so demoralizing that you are then just getting the scraps.

[00:10:41] Annette Ferguson: Yeah. And it’s really difficult because, I’ve been there and done that, where, but before we had Profit First in the business, I was in that position. And I was also, I also felt like I was failing because I wasn’t taking the money home that I felt like I should be taking, I’d, up until I discovered Profit First, I had been in business for about five years.

[00:11:02] Annette Ferguson: And it felt like just another client, just one more client and we’ll get some money home, just one more client, just one more client. And that was perpetual. And, from time to time, my husband would say to me when, what’s happening with the business, when are we going to get some money out of it?

[00:11:17] Annette Ferguson: What’s that going to look like? And he did it in a very non pressured way, but still, I still felt. I still felt like a failure. I still felt like I was, I wasn’t able to do this business thing because surely something was going wrong. What was happening that I was never being paid quite frankly, very little money coming out of the business.

[00:11:39] Annette Ferguson: And every time I got a new client, I thought, okay, now will be the time that I get paid more, but it just seemed to disappear because it was, as you say, in this one bucket where everything just sloshed around. Now, what probably didn’t help the matter as well is I was wanting to learn about growing my business.

[00:11:58] Annette Ferguson: And I’d see a course for two grand and I’d go, Oh, I’ve got some money in my bank account. I can probably spend that on this over here. But then I’d get another bill over here and I’d be going, Oh, shoot, hang on, that’s not good. And when everything is in this one pot, it can be really difficult to get the clarity that you need to make important decisions in your business.

[00:12:21] Katie Bell: And I think Annette, our listeners, will really resonate with that story. I was there exactly the same as you before. We introduced Profit First as you were, and then we have both implemented it in our business. You both teach it, , you’re running it for people’s companies.

[00:12:34] Katie Bell: And it’s transformational. . And it’s, it means that you. You can dictate is probably the wrong word, but you can take a consistent salary income. You can predict what that’s going to look like. It can grow. You can still have profit left in the business to reinvest and develop and go to the next level.

[00:12:52] Katie Bell: You can have your tax money set to one side and it’s just a whole lot less stressful. It’s a

[00:12:57] Annette Ferguson: big weight

[00:12:58] Katie Bell: off your shoulders, I think. Yeah. Annette, I know that you have some we could talk all day about half a curse. We could. We could, but we’re going to try and break this down into kind of three tangible Things and tips for our listeners to take away.

[00:13:14] Katie Bell: So let’s dive in with the first one. And you said to me, this is about the leaks.

[00:13:20] Annette Ferguson: Yes. What we call money leaks in a business and no one wants a leak, right? No one wants to leak anywhere. And you don’t want money leaks in your business either. And so how I. I’m best describing this is by giving your listeners an exercise that they can go through to find and identify money leaks in their business, and then make a decision about what you want to do about them.

[00:13:45] Annette Ferguson: So what I recommend is that you gather together your business bank and credit card statements, anywhere where business spending is happening, gather together the last bit 12 months worth of statements. And I’m going to describe this exercise as having printed them out, but of course you could do CSVs and color code them and stuff, but this I personally, I still have a paper diary.

[00:14:07] Annette Ferguson: Okay. I love pen and paper. I’m just one of those people. So I like to print it out and do it. And and what you want to do is you want to gather all those statements together and then grab a highlighter and a red pen. And first of all, I want you to go through the statement. Every single item, every single line, every single month.

[00:14:26] Annette Ferguson: And there will be things that occur monthly and that’s okay. The first question I want to ask yourself with the first pass through is this expense 100 percent necessary to keep the proverbial lights on in my business? I cannot operate without it. It is not allowed. Now that will include things like insurance, potentially.

[00:14:46] Annette Ferguson: It will include tax because that is the cost of running a business, but there will be other things in there where you say, I actually cannot possibly operate without this expense. 100 percent necessary. And I want you to highlight all those expenses. Every single line, go through and ask yourself the question.

[00:15:05] Annette Ferguson: Every single month. That’s okay. Every time. Okay. And then once you’ve got to the bottom of the pile, I want you to flip it over and pick up your red pen. And this time say to yourself, is this expense delivering me a positive return in terms of money or time? And if the answer is yes, then you circle that one and you go through again, every single one, including the ones you’d already highlighted, and you Every single expense, line by line, month by month.

[00:15:33] Annette Ferguson: Because sometimes it’s interesting when you get to month eight or nine, by the way, and you think it’s delivered you a positive return, and then you start to reassess it after you’ve asked yourself a few times, but do it every single time and go through this process. This packet of paper that you have, and now you have gone through everything and you will have some items that you’ve highlighted, you have some that you have circled red, you’ve some that you’ve done both, but you also crucially have some that you have done nothing at all with, they are completely blank, so those expenses are not delivering you a positive return and they are not necessary to keep the lights on in your business.

[00:16:09] Annette Ferguson: So the question is, what is the purpose? In many cases, the answer is these are nice to haves. And I am not saying that you cannot have nice to haves, but it’s really important to understand that nice to haves can also be money leaks. Because a nice to have in your business means money is not being taken home.

[00:16:30] Annette Ferguson: It means it’s being spent in the business and you’re not taking it home for you and your family. So understanding with the nice to haves in your business, that is a choice you are making Around the spending and that can really help you understand whether those things are actually money leaks and need to be canceled or whether you’re okay with that nice to have.

[00:16:53] Annette Ferguson: And that’s also fine as long as the decision is made with the knowledge of it.

[00:16:59] Katie Bell: I love that tip because it’s how many times I’ve done this personally. I now have a spreadsheet. You’ll be very proud of me. Not in my zone of genius. I have a spreadsheet with all my personal spending on my income. And I track my bills every month.

[00:17:13] Katie Bell: And I look at when things are renewed, renewing, and I look at how I’m going to cost save on those things. But this is it, isn’t it? It’s going through item by item and just for, probably for the first time since COVID, I know in COVID, we did this in our business. We were like we’ve got to, we’ve got to cut the fat here.

[00:17:29] Katie Bell: This is, like kind of life or death situation. Yeah, but we’re four years in now. A lot of businesses will have gone crap back. Because

[00:17:39] Annette Ferguson: there’ll be subscriptions that you thought you’d try this thing off and it was really cool for the first three months and then you just stopped using it and forgot about it completely.

[00:17:47] Annette Ferguson: But it’s only 10 pounds a month so you don’t really notice it or you see it when you’re scrolling through your bank transactions but you’re like oh it’s too much hassle to cancel just now. But those add up.

[00:17:58] Katie Bell: Okay, great first tip. Second tip, you wrote down about setting this profit money aside.

[00:18:05] Annette Ferguson: Yes, absolutely. One of the key fundamental principles of Profit First is to take your profit first as a business. And You might be thinking at the moment that’s all great, but I’m not going to magic profits. I currently have no profits. I can’t suddenly magic these profits. So where are these profits coming from?

[00:18:24] Annette Ferguson: The first thing is step one that I just spoke about. So identifying those money leaks is where you will find some of the profits. And so once you’ve done that, it’s really important to not Slide back into that habit again, and actually start setting aside some money into a separate bank account. Or if you’re with Starling, they are called spaces.

[00:18:48] Annette Ferguson: If you’re with Monzo, they are called pots. So different banks use different terminologies, but setting up a pot space or bank account called your profit account, and on a weekly or two weekly basis, you put some money into that profit account. Now, If you are not profitable at the moment and you are thinking she’s telling me how to try magic money, then I recommend that the amount that you put in is half a percent of your income.

[00:19:18] Annette Ferguson: Okay? It doesn’t need to be hundreds and thousands of pounds. This first step is about establishing the, both the mindset and the habit. Of getting that money into a profit bank account and do not steal back from it. Once you put it in, I will tell you what to do with it, but don’t steal the money back because that is the temptation.

[00:19:42] Annette Ferguson: When people start doing this is that something comes along and they think, Oh, I just need to take some of that money back out. Whether that be that your favorite coach has launched a course or whether that be that you you decide to take on a new member of staff. Do not steal out of your pots.

[00:20:01] Annette Ferguson: There are other ways to work out what you can afford when in your business, which is the next part I’m going to talk about, but there’s other ways to do that. You don’t need to steal out the pots to do it. Back to this profit account. What I recommend is either weekly, you can pick a day of the week.

[00:20:17] Annette Ferguson: It’s usually the easiest thing to do, or every two weeks, look and see how much cash has come into your bank account over that time period since you lasted it. Take half a percent and pop it into that profit account. Then what I want you to do on a quarterly basis is on a quarterly basis, 50 percent of the money sitting in that profit pot, you transfer yourself as a bonus of some description.

[00:20:43] Annette Ferguson: Now, this is where we have to briefly cover the transaction management thing again, versus the cash management. Because I’m telling you to take out 50 percent from your profit pot. How on earth do you deal with that with your transaction management? That will depend a little bit on your structure, your business structure, and how you deal with that.

[00:21:02] Annette Ferguson: I’m speaking incidentally. In the UK, if you are elsewhere in the world, cause obviously this podcast is going out into the interwebs. If you’re elsewhere in the world, you need to speak to your local tax professional about how to deal with this. In the UK, if you are a sole trader, that will just get treated as your drawings, or if you’re in a part standard partnership, that will just get treated as your drawings.

[00:21:25] Annette Ferguson: If you are in a limited company how it’s treated will depend on Your tax basis, whether you’re typically taking money out as a salary and dividend model, whether you’re repaying director’s loan, all those things will come into play. So again, you may need to ask your accountant about how to treat that, but there will be a way to do that if you’re a limited company under whichever mechanism you’re typically paying yourself from.

[00:21:50] Annette Ferguson: So if you’re doing a dividend salary mix, that’s likely. To be a dividend, an increase in the dividend. And if you’re doing a salary director’s loan mix, it’s likely to be a director’s loan repayment. Just so you know, that’s how it works on the transaction management side. It can work.

[00:22:05] Katie Bell: Wow. Okay. And that, and I liked what you said, because a lot of listeners here will be thinking, I’m not making any profit.

[00:22:11] Katie Bell: And at this point, I would really urge you to get clear on your numbers here, because if you’re not making profit, why are you running a business ultimately? I’m very bold in what I say there, but your business has to be profitable to be sustainable.

[00:22:24] Annette Ferguson: Because you can’t serve anyone. If you’re not profitable, ultimately your business goes out of business and you don’t serve and support anyone.

[00:22:32] Annette Ferguson: And so that’s, that’s the problem really ultimately with not being profitable. And profit is not a dirty word. It’s not a horrible word. I know that sometimes people associate it with big corporations and, nasty behaviors, but that’s not what profit is. Profit is required in order for a business to survive.

[00:22:53] Annette Ferguson: And that is what we’re talking about here.

[00:22:55] Katie Bell: Yeah, you’re so right. And it’s allowing our clinic owners to make a bigger, greater impact on the health and wellness of their communities. A hundred percent. So we have to be profitable.

[00:23:05] Annette Ferguson: Yes, because they can’t do that if they’re not,

[00:23:07] Katie Bell: you just can’t. Exactly.

[00:23:09] Katie Bell: Annette fire away with tip number three about your profit plan.

[00:23:13] Annette Ferguson: Wonderful. So tip number three is around building a profit plan for your business. Now. This is essentially a cash flow forecast, but with the principles of profit first layered in. I really urge people to build out basically a forward looking model for the next, Ideally 12 months, but if that is too overwhelming, three to six months for your business to understand the ins and the outs when it comes to cash.

[00:23:46] Annette Ferguson: And that does involve you looking at, again, every single line item in your bank account and understanding. What payments are going out and which payments you are expecting to come in. Now the expecting to come in can be hard or you might have some people who are on monthly recurring, you’ll get new clients in, you’ll get some that drop off because their treatments have finished, all those things happen.

[00:24:06] Annette Ferguson: But if you’ve been in business a little while you’ll have a rough idea of what the cycles look like for your business when it comes to the revenue. By the costs you’ll be able to get from your bank statements, you’ll be able to see what the outgoings are every month you’ve committed to. And map it out in a spreadsheet.

[00:24:24] Annette Ferguson: You can then clearly see the income. You can minus the expenses and then you’ve got a number. Now, with that number, remember that tax comes off that. So I would, so you need to make an estimate for corporation tax for or personal tax if you’re a sole trader. For want of a better calculation, I would take 20 percent of that number.

[00:24:44] Annette Ferguson: It will give you a good enough estimation on what that is. And then you’ve got. Your bottom line. Now, if again, if you’re on a dividend model, you’ll need to take your dividend out at that level. So that’s just a little bit of a quirk that you’ll need to remember. What are you left with? Because that number needs to be positive because that’s the cash coming in minus the cash going out.

[00:25:05] Annette Ferguson: If it’s not positive, you’re going to have to borrow that. That’s what it comes down to. So that number needs to be positive. And what you can then do is you can actually look at that model and you can actually work out what your percentages are. So you can look and say, okay, in this model, what’s my profit as a percentage of revenue?

[00:25:24] Annette Ferguson: What’s my owner’s pay? You can add up the lines that are equivalent. As my percentage of revenue. So you can actually see where you currently sit, but another great thing about this building out a profit plan for your business is you can actually start doing some scenario analysis around it as well.

[00:25:39] Annette Ferguson: So you could layer in, Oh, I’m thinking about taking on a new team member in June. What does that look like if I put their wage into the model? What would need to happen with the other parts of the model? Or I’m thinking of moving to a new premises. What does that look like if I factor in my moving costs and my new rent and all those things?

[00:26:01] Annette Ferguson: So using a, building out a cash plan, a profit plan for your business, But then not leaving it on a digital bookshelf, collecting virtual dust, actually using it as a tool to understand how you’re going to strategically and financially support the plans that you want for your business.

[00:26:25] Katie Bell: So tip number one was fix your money leaks find out where your money leaks are and then you can then you know Get rid of them.

[00:26:31] Katie Bell: You can plug those holes Yeah, but two was to start setting even just half a percent of your revenue aside into a profit account. Absolutely And number three was building this cash flow plan, this profit plan to be able to start to see your percentages and what needs to be adjusted and how those scenarios of a new member of staff or increasing your overheads here will affect all of those different percentages.

[00:26:56] Annette Ferguson: Exactly.

[00:26:58] Katie Bell: Annette, this has been so helpful and I’m so glad you’re telling them this rather than me because you are the expert. And for those business owners who are listening to this thinking Annette just talks my language, she gets it, she understands it you make things really simple for people which is which is wonderful when you’re a physio and you don’t really understand this stuff.

[00:27:18] Katie Bell: How does your service work Annette? How can how can our listeners Get in touch with you and have a chat with you about their business and how they can implement the profit first model.

[00:27:29] Annette Ferguson: Lovely. Yeah. The easiest way to get in touch with me is probably to hop to the website. You can book a call from there or you can send me a message.

[00:27:36] Annette Ferguson: The website is Annetteandco. co. uk. So it’s A N E T A E A N D C O. co. uk.

[00:27:46] Katie Bell: Amazing. We will make sure Annette, that is linked in the show notes listeners, so you can head there. And I would really encourage you to think about what we’ve talked before on this podcast, that there is things that and there’s things that you know, you don’t know, and there’s things that you don’t know, you don’t know yet.

[00:28:00] Katie Bell: And if you’re in one of those categories that you think, I really need to be doing something about this. Don’t try and fix this yourself. Get somebody in, like Annette, who is the expert, who runs the Profit First model. It will align beautifully with everything that you’re hearing on the podcast and everything that we’re teaching within the Thrive Coaching programs.

[00:28:18] Katie Bell: Annette, it has been a joy. Thank you so much for your time and for inspiring and motivating our listeners to change the way they do things to get different results.

[00:28:28] Annette Ferguson: Katie, it’s been an absolute pleasure. I am passionate about profit first in people’s businesses because like you say, it literally transforms how businesses operate and that’s not an understatement.

[00:28:39] Katie Bell: Thank you again for your time. Thank you.